Are Black Republicans Grifters? A Conversation With Clay Cane

[00:00:00] Speaker A: The original black Republicans are rolling in their graves. So in order to talk about the history of black politics, we've got to start with black Republicans. Black folks were evicted, he said. The Negro feels evicted. Who's holding this book for? This book is for folks who care about the truth, for folks who care about history. [00:00:19] Speaker B: Who are these grifters and what exactly are these grifting power? [00:00:22] Speaker A: We all know that Trump is the greatest grifter of them all. So not only is this book the downward spiral of black Republicans, it's also the downward spiral of. [00:00:31] Speaker B: Welcome to Uncovered with Derrick James. Today I am joined by with Clay Kane, journalist and the author of the Grip, which is a comprehensive exploration of the historical and contemporary roles of black Republicans in American politics, with a focus on those who exploit their race for personal and political gain. Your book offers a very detailed analysis of the various political figures and movements, and it traces the evolution from the times of Frederick Douglass to today in the era of Trumpism. This book critically examines the impact of these individuals on the black community and the broader political landscape. So, Clay, I mean, let's get right started, man. Why'd you write the book? [00:01:16] Speaker A: I wrote this book because I care about the truth. I wrote this book because I have been disturbed how the Republican Party has mangled and destroyed and they're attempting to erase our history. So in order to talk about the history of black politics, you gotta start with black Republicans. That's really the beginning of black political movements. It really is with black Republicans like Frederick Douglass. So I wanted to chart how in the world did black Republicans go from Frederick Douglass to Clarence Thomas? How did we get here? How do we go from Ida B. Wells, amazing journalists and activists against lynchings. To me, love, what exactly happened? The original black Republicans are rolling in their graves at some of the offensive stunts that we've seen from where we are today. And even how do we go from General Colin Powell to South Carolina Senator Tim Scott? So I wrote the book because I wanted to shine the light of truth. And I also think how people sometimes pathologize black voters. Why do you vote Republican? I mean, I'm sorry, why do you vote Democrat? Why do so many black folks vote Democrat? So not only is this book the downward spiral of black Republicans, it's also the downward spiral of racial politics in the Republican Party. Because one of the key things I point out in the book is that black folks were evicted from the Republican Party. We were kicked out. A great senator, Senator Edward Brooke, he was the first black Republican to be elected. The first two came through the state legislature. He said the Negro feels evicted from the Republican Party. So I also point this out how the reason why we don't support y'all is because we were originally kicked out because of the Southern Strategy and Barry Goldwater and Richard Nixon and all these things. So you can't be surprised we're not going to support you. Especially when you have the governor of Mississippi making April Confederate Heritage Month or somebody running for president who can't say the Civil War was about slavery or the governor of Florida co signing that there was personal benefits to slavery. So the book is twofold. It's the downward spiral of black Republicans, where they are today. It's offensive and disturbing. And the downward spiral of racial politics in the gop. [00:03:48] Speaker B: And I mean, you give a really thorough, thorough examination of that. But how do you. Who's this book for? [00:03:54] Speaker A: This book is for folks who care about the truth, for folks who care about history, for folks who care about facts. And even if you are quote, unquote conservative, and I'm not sure what conservative means, because what do you want to conserve? But even if you are, quote, unquote, conservative, do you want the Colin Powell's in your party or do you want the Herschel Walker's in your party? Because the circus attracts the circus, corruption attracts corruption. And we all know that Trump is the greatest grifter of them all. Grifters attract grifters. So if you care about the truth, if you care about history, and if you care about your party allegedly, then I would assume that you wouldn't want con artists in your party. Maybe you do. I would assume you wouldn't want people who are insincere in your party who are just looking for a check from a big conservative billion dollar organization. So if you genuinely allege, if you care about these things, I would think you would care about the truth with this book. But also this book is to make sure that we inform and incentivize in this 2024 presidential election. There's a lot of misinformation out there, a lot of dangerous information out there. So I hope that people read this book. They'll get passionate, they'll see the danger, because there is extremism in the gop and some of that is coming from people who look like us. So anybody who's upholding white supremacy, black or white, needs to be called out. So this book is for folks who care about the truth, for folks who care about our politics, for folks who care about our history and the reason why I feel like this moment is so scary right now, Derek, is because I lay out on the book. I've. You've seen what happens when we dismiss our democracy. I mean, this is not much of this is. It's a rerun. I, you know, I detail what's called the Compromise of 1877, which was the end of Reconstruction, and Republicans and Democrats decided to turn their backs on black people and leave the Negro problem to the South. You know, they're in this book, you see the warning signs that if we do not pay attention, you see how there was a Civil Rights act that was overturned in the 1880s by the Supreme Court. The GOP right now is aiming to overturn our 1964 Civil Rights Act. So I am ringing the alarm. I am telling people, be aware. Know your history. Know the facts beyond memes on social media. And no, there are people who look like us just speaking to us for a minute who are advocating against us to get proximity to power. [00:06:31] Speaker B: So let's talk. I want to talk about that and how you define a grifter in the book, specifically talking about black Republicans. And I think the way that he described it was pretty dope. I mean, I know for me, just being a person who is more of a consumer of news, although I worked in politics for many, many years now, that now I just consume and, you know, you. With the advent of. Of social media and other platforms that give people an opportunity to sort of create their own bully pulpit, how do you see, like, I guess, without calling them out, or you can call them out if you need to, man. But who. Who are these grifters, and what exactly are they grifting? How are they grifting? [00:07:11] Speaker A: Well, the griftus is an ideology, and it existed long before Trump. One of the things I point out in the book is that even in the early parts of our black political figures, we began to see people who. That taste for power, that proximity for power was enough to vote against their own community, was enough to align themselves with, you know, explicit white supremacists. So it's a. It's a downward spiral. It's a journey. You know, how we got there. But I define grifter as a con artist, as somebody who will shape shift around racial politics for proximity to power, for a congressional seat, and sometimes just for the check. Right? And a lot of people have contributed to this. You know, Clarence Thomas is the watershed moment of the grift. He's the one that really perfected the blueprint. I mean, honestly and truly, the. The black Republicans of the 1970s, they were problematic, but it wasn't the narrative, stop being the black folks who are victims to the white man get off welfare. The Democratic plantation didn't really hear too much of that. There were folks who were kind of sincere, but in excusing white supremacy within the Nixon administration, they helped to contribute to the likes of a Clarence Thomas. And you see black Republicans of the Nixon era blasting Clarence Thomas. So Clarence Thomas is somebody who is uplifted because of affirmative action, yet is against affirmative action. That's a grifter. You literally get ahead because of a policy that helped you. Now you want to close the door behind you. So it gets worse and worse as we get along. It gets more dangerous, more insidious. And now where we are today, it is so explicit, it is so anti black. And a lot of them would just want to be on social media looking for that next big check, looking to become the next Candace Owens, whatever the case may be, even when the their history is clear. They did not believe this a few years before. In the intro of my book, I talk about a someone that I knew very well who told me he was becoming a Republican because it was good consumerism. This is what he literally told me. And so the grift is a con, but it's with black Republican grifters. It has a legislative impact on black communities. Mark Robinson in North Carolina right now, he's running for governor for governor of North Carolina. He is the lieutenant governor right now. This man had no political experience and he was simply on social media saying that black Panther was created by agnostic Jew and insulting Michelle Obama. He was popped up on, on freaking Fox News immediately and that he won the race for lieutenant governor, beat out other white Republicans. But see, the grift is, what you have to also do is make some white folks, not all feel good about their racism. Well, if Mark Robinson says it, then it can't be racist. If Senator Tim Scott says there's no voting rights issue, well, bet you by golly wow, then that's the case. Oh well, if, if, if Clarence Thomas says affirmative action isn't needed, they provide racial cover. So it, it, it differs for various people, but many of them have contributed to it. And if you didn't contribute to it, then you were kicked out of the party. I mean, Colin Powell leaves the GOP because of its racism and its lies. And so now what we have are clowns on steroids are people who, I'm not even sure they believe what they're saying, but they know It'll get them access to power, it'll get them money, and maybe eventually they'll go on the apology tour like Omarosa or Stacey Dash. So there's that too. Some of them have a wake up call eventually and then they start apologizing and then they want to, you know, come back in and they understand it suddenly when they experience the racism. You know, Mia Love said a former Rep of Utah, racism isn't an issue in the gop. Then when she loses her election, she's crying racism. So it's peculiar, it's strange. And I'll tell you this too, Derek, if this were a pot, if you, if you came out as somebody who worked in politics and said, I am now a Republican, I give it about six months, you'd be on Fox News all over the place. The Republican Party is seeking out, I mean, I detail this in the book. They are seeking out black folks to be Republicans. I explained this. I interview people who said I was approached by the gop, hey, we could make you a political star. So it's, it's. But again, it goes back to the impact it has on black communities. If Herschel Walker, who came too close to being senator of Georgia, if he would have became senator of Georgia, we would not, we would not have the tie in the United States Senate. We wouldn't have the, I'm sorry, the, the one, the, the one person leading the United States Senate and he will be voting against black folks in Georgia every step of the way. Legislative impact. [00:12:39] Speaker B: Yeah. So I'm gonna, I think about myself, right? I, I worked in Democratic politics. I started my career working in Obama White House. I worked for only Democratic members of Congress, have done campaigns, the whole shebang. But I've moved away from the Democratic Party. I'm an independent. And for me, it was a, you know, intellectual and emotional decision just based on my own experiences working in the party. You know, there's racism everywhere. But I do think the black liberal, the white liberal, has a particularly insidious type of racism. And so I'm still, I'm exploring, to be honest. I'm not gonna, I don't, I'm not gonna go on one side or the other. I care more about issues that affect my people. But because of that, I open myself up to at least hearing messages from both sides. And I'm a communications professional. So a lot my job is to know what's being said on Fox News and msnbc. So I did, I've done my own, you know, examination and research and I know when I'm. I. I do listen to folks like Candace Owens just to hear what they're saying. Right. Because I was wholly against, you know, any black Republican talking about, you know, you know, saying racism is a real or whatever. But what I found is that I can see how some black folks. And here are Candace Owens, talk about the degradation of the black family. Talk about how it was a deliberate, deliberate ploy by the Democratic Party because of social programs, all these things. And I'm a product of. I'm a product, you know, I grew up. Projects. I grew up in, you know, with. With the government aid. And so I'm not. Obviously, I'm not against it, but we do understand that there. The historical context behind that. So what do you say to black folks who are looking at their current economic and social situation, unable to afford groceries and gas, I think, you know, where I'm getting unable to afford groceries and gas in their bills. And they're looking at the current administration and its policies, and they may not be somebody who is totally politically centric or aware. They just know what's going on in their neighborhood with their family, and they remember what someone like, you know, they remember the era of Trump where they were getting checks and all these different things, and there was more economic prosperity. And they're hearing somebody like a Candace Owens kind of speak to these issues in a way that is a little bit compelling to a black person without knowing the full scope of her ideology. How do you. How do we, you know, how do we reconcile that with people who are just living their everyday lives and seeing the Denver party, seeing that, the feeling like the Democratic Party is just not for them. [00:15:23] Speaker A: Well, do you think there was more economic prosperity under Trump? [00:15:27] Speaker B: No, I'm not saying there is, but. [00:15:28] Speaker A: I'm saying a lot, folks. Well, then. Well, then, there we go. So the first thing is misinformation. Yeah, because it's just categorically untrue. There was more economic prosperity under Trump. Unless you were rich. It's just categorically untrue. There was economic prosperity under Bush, who tanked our economy and Obama had to clean it up. Democrats are not perfect. Do not get me wrong. Like, absolutely. In no way, shape, or form are they perfect. But we got to start with actual facts first. So what has the GOP done for black communities? Trump takes credit for the HBCU bill, which was written by Alma Adams when Trump was trying to cut the line item for HBCUs. This narrative that you said drives me up the wall. This is misinformation. So you said about, I guess, Candace Owens, which really is an unoriginal point. I mean, every black Republican says this welfare destroys the black family. You know, you know what the origins of welfare are? Mother's pension. Mother's Pension was a government program to help white women in the early 1900s. It was to help white women. And take a wild guess who was blocked by Mother's Pension? Black women. [00:16:43] Speaker B: Women. [00:16:44] Speaker A: Black women did not get access to Mother's pension. So by the time you get to the Great Society, all these Lyndon B. Johnson bills that, that folks like South Carolina Senator Tim Scott says destroys the black family, the data will show you after the Great Society, those bills come in, which brings in unemployment, the Civil Rights act, the black middle class would increase. So the data just shows that's just not true. But one of the things they say is welfare destroys the black family. Because in order to get on welfare, you had to kick the man out of the house. That's what you had to do. That was struck down by the Supreme Court via a black woman. By the early, by the late 1960s, a black woman struck that down, saying that I'm being blind because she, she divorced and she had a partner. And then they were saying you can't get access to, to any kind of social services. And that was struck down. So this whole idea that what hurts the black community are unfair wages are, the racial wealth gap would be hiring practices. So this idea that social services is degrading the black family when the majority of folks on welfare are white, I cannot stand when they make welfare a black issue. Welfare is a poverty issue. And I was born and raised on welfare. So a lot of this is just misinformation. But let me be clear. Let me be clear. I could write a whole book about Democrats. Okay, So I really want to be clear with you. This book is about black Republicans, right? So I could write a whole book about Democrats, the Democratic Party. The reason why they have evolved is because black folks made them evolve. That's why they evolved the Democratic Party. When I was younger, I mean, not much to write home about. You know what I'm saying? Obama completely changed the Democratic Party in the book. I call it Post Obama Democrats. Right? So what I want us to do, Derek, I want us to vote out these old guard Democrats who are doing nothing, who do not care about us. I want us to take over the Democratic Party where we have our power, the way the Tea Party took over the gop, the way the MAGA Party has taken over the gop. See, when they get upset. They say, let's vote more. Yeah, I want us to have more. Malcolm Kenyatta's, Chevron Jones, some of these, these names folks may not know. Ayanna Pressley's, Cori Bush. I want us to have more of them. So the idea is like, I'm not going to vote. I mean, you have one party who is. Has deeply anti black policies. You have another party where we have the power to push them in the right direction. And you've seen some success with that. You've seen under the Biden Harris administration that you've had black businesses doubling access to federal contracts. You see the child income tax credit slashing black poverty among children in half. It would skyrocket because. Because Republicans cut it. You see more black judges being appointed to a federal bench than all presidents combined. And federal judges impact civil rights. They impact voting rights and so on. So I am not saying Democrats are perfect. But what I don't want us to get into is believing misinformation that comes from folks like Candace Owens and Byron Donalds. I, I mean, Candace Owens said. This is in my book, and I only have one paragraph on her. This is not the Candace Owens book. She's not that much of a factor. But she said the nra. The NRA was a civil rights group designed to protect black folks from the kkk. She said this on Fox News. This is, this is. How can we even take this person seriously? Why would we even platform her? I mean, this is. Does it. That is. That's ridiculous. Like literally. She said the NAACP is the worst group for black people, yet they helped her win a lawsuit when she was in high school for over $30,000. [00:20:59] Speaker B: Really? [00:21:00] Speaker A: That is the epitome of a grift. They literally helped you win a lawsuit when you were in high school in Connecticut. Over $30,000. I spoke to the man who helped her win this lawsuit, but he didn't want to talk on the record. I mean, this is what I'm talking about. You are helped and assisted. Now, this group, this policy is somehow the devil. And I think what really happens is that folks like her, they push out actual black Republicans who really do care about black folks. I don't agree with Michael Steele's policy, but he wasn't shaming black Democrats. He understood why black folks, Michael still former RNC chair, why they weren't supporting the Republican Party. The Republican Party has never atoned for their sins against black people. And they won't even admit it. They won't even. They'll just say Lincoln freed the slaves. Why don't you, you know, Lincoln, Lincoln, Lincoln, Lincoln. The party of Lincoln. And mind you, Lincoln is no gem either. So for, for black folks who are frustrated with Democrats. I hear you. So am I. I'm on radio five days a week, three hours a day. I say we hold them accountable and we vote them out. And that said, we also have to be able to celebrate our wins. I think what, it's easy to be contrarian, it's easy to critique, but sometimes we have to be aware. And I know when something good happens, it's not headline news. But I will tell you, Derek, on my show, I mean, three hours a day, five days a week, I have had so many folks called in and said I had $100,000 in student loan forgiveness, dropped $50,000, much of which was just interest, mind you. They said, no one's talking about this. My life has been changed. I'm not spending $400 a month on, on the student loan bill. And you brought up Trump giving out checks during the, during the, the pandemic. I mean, Democrats had to fight to increase that amount. Then he held the checks, the two, because there were others given out or given given to under the Biden administration because he wanted his signature on it. I mean, let's hold people accountable, but let's, if we're going to hold folks accountable, let's focus on correct information, not propaganda. Understand what the grift is and do these people really care about you or do they know it'll make them get, go viral and they can get a speaking tour with a conservative organization? Because it is a much shorter line to political attention. If you are a black Republican, if you're a black Democrat who believes in policies for black folks and holding black holding Democrats accountable, it's a longer line and there are people who will just do this to get ahead. So that's what I say. I mean, I hear you, I hear you, but we have to know facts and information and do a simple Google search. One more thing, one more thing. This is really important to me, Derek. I don't know if you own property, but the PAve Action Plan, no one's talking about this. This combats racism and home appraisals. I just bought a place a couple years ago. It was terrible what I was going through. I mean, these are the things, it's weird. Like Democrats, we sometimes have a trouble, have an issue celebrating our wins and let's critique them when we should, but let's not critique them based on misinformation. And let's hold them accountable. And if you don't like them, hold on. Vote them out. Don't not vote, vote them out. [00:24:45] Speaker B: And I think that's why, honestly, this is why your book is important. I think that, you know, if, you know, you know, if I were. I sent you a video actually, yesterday. I don't know if you had a chance to look at it, but it was a video that, that Trump posted, and it was a bunch of interviews, street interviews. I think they might have been in the Bronx, New York, talking to a bunch of people of color about Biden. And, and essentially they were endorsing Trump because of bad Democratic policies, they say. Right. So I do think that's why it's important. That's why your book is so important. It's like, it's, it's almost like it's something that can equip people with real historical context and nuance so that they understand really quick. [00:25:28] Speaker A: I'm sorry, can I add, allegedly, that video, those folks were paid, Dude, Honestly. [00:25:34] Speaker B: I, I've almost figured. [00:25:36] Speaker A: And that's what I'm talking about. You see what I'm saying? So it sounds, oh, look at these black folks in the Bronx supporting Trump. Allegedly, they got some money for it. [00:25:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:45] Speaker A: This is. Can you imagine if Biden did that? It would be, if there was even a, any kind of assumption or possibility that somebody in the Biden administration paid black folks to say, I like this guy. It would be all, I mean, the false equivalencies, the double standards. It's so heartbreaking to me. But people see that it goes viral, like, oh, what is that? Then you hear. And then you don't hear, allegedly, I'm saying allegedly, that they were paid. So I just want to point that out there in case folks see that. That's what I, that's what reports are saying. [00:26:21] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think about, when you talk about the Democrats not being good with, Honestly, they're not good with pr. I mean, I, I worked in the White House, Obama, I was in the Office of Communications. The communications were shitty. Straight up. I would be perplexed how, you know, we'd achieve some sort of policy win or some sort of, you know, something, and we just didn't disseminate it in the right way to the right people because we, we didn't, we didn't talk to the right people. And I think that I would say that the Democratic Party has a problem with actually speaking to the people that they're actually trying to impact. That's my opinion. I work. I work in a. For a lot. I've done work with a lot of nonprofits, have organized rallies and different things around the country. And I constantly have to tell white Democrats, hey, you can't just come into this neighborhood and do this thing without engaging with the local community organizers. Right. So I think there's this weird fundamental thing that some folks have that they're serving black people without actually asking them if they need to be served and asking for their input. Right. So that's my issue generally with, with, with Democrats in general, white Democrats in general. But yeah, man, I think that. I think that what's happening is really dangerous. I think that talking not to. I don't want to harbor on Candace Owens or, Or any particular black Republican, but the folks who are most prominent, I call them, you know, black Republican influencers. They're the folks who are, you know, they're most prominent in their. And they're. And they have the loudest voices. And I think that what their message, of their message essentially say, telling black people to wake up. Right. And I think that is a very simplistic message. And given what's happening now with the economy and different things, I think it's a very easy message to disseminate that resonates with people. So I think it's very dangerous. And that's why I think your book is so, so important. But how do you think the Democratic Party, like, what can they do to ensure, like, that people, that black people in particular understand the, you know, the numerous policies that. That are being executed in order to, to help us rise up. [00:28:25] Speaker A: You know, Derek, I struggle with this. You're right. Messaging is important. Absolutely. The GOP has a different message because their message is basically otherism. I don't know what their policies are outside of immigration. I don't know what their policy is. I don't know what their policy is for health care. I don't know what their policy is for labor unions. Well, I guess. And labor unions. I don't know what the education policy. They don't have policies. I don't know what the gop. I don't even think the gop, I don't think they released even like a. A public plan. So here's the thing. It's easier to sell bad. It's easier to sell a lie. That's. Sadly, that's clickbait that. That works. You know, I think Democrats, the party, whether it's the D or the R, the party that is helping the most vulnerable, the party that is focuses on People who are marginalized. The party that is doing the right thing will always have a harder sell. You're not going to see the PAVE action plan as a ticker on cnn. Just not going to see that. So I do agree. You have to. They have to get out there. I will say that Vice President Kamala Harris did do an entire college tour. Nobody's talking about that. I will say there was the build back, better bus tour. I mean, I've seen some things they could do better. But the real talk is, Derek, is that these politicians are not going to come to your front door and have tea with you and tell you all that they did. We as voters, we have to be informed. We have to do a Google search. It's about us. We have to know what's happening. And I agree with you with the Obama administration. He needed better pr, but his administration did save the economy. I mean, we forget his first bill that he signed was equal pay for women. So I've been saying that the messaging talking point for a while, and I, and I hear you and I get it. But on the other side, I'm thinking it's up to us. It's up to us to know. And if we don't know, then if Biden loses, he's going to be all right, folks. I'm going to show Biden and not vote for him. He's set for life and so are his kids. Yeah, like we have to know. [00:30:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I wonder. But see, I don't, I don't agree, I don't agree that it's that. Right. I don't think that a voting, a vote against Biden is a vote. Excuse me. I don't think that a vote for a Trump as a vote against Biden. I truly think that people are suffering. And, you know, and we associate, Although a lot of the wins that, you know, Trump got even with, you know, in terms of the economy came from the previous administration, from the Obama administration. We, you know, we know that, but the average person doesn't. They just know that they can't afford their grandmother's prescription. They know they can't put food on the table for their kids. Right. So I just think you have just, in the, in the 30 minutes we've been talking, your messaging has been more on point than I've heard anywhere else from the Democratic Party. And I think that the Democratic Party has a responsibility to sit and take a moment and truly understand the ways in which this economy is affecting black people. I'm tired of, I'm tired of hearing the White House press secretary say we're not in a recession and you know, didn't. They didn't even want to talk about inflation for months. It just look, it looks shady, it looks crazy. And so I think that more people need to hear, more people need to buy your book, but more people need to hear from folks like you who have a real thorough understanding of all of this. Right. Do you, I feel when you talk about sort of the, I love the way you talked about the evolution of the black Republican and I think about. Do you feel that the sort of, this extremism is just a product of modernity that you, I mean I don't want to put words in your mouth in terms of the book, but I know that the, the, you know, there's always been, there's been an evolution of the, the black Republican and it's all, it's really tied to me to technology and social media giving people this platform. But do you think that the extremism that we are hearing from these folks just come from the extremism on of just, it's just a nature of the current zeitgeist, the fact that both sides are super extreme. And so if you have a black Republican coming out, you know, as a black Republican, they're going to sort of just automatically be an extremist because the GOP is extreme or do you feel. So I guess my question is this. Do you feel like these folks are really being exploitative or are they just going along the same lines of the Republican Party in terms of their, their talking points and their messaging? [00:33:10] Speaker A: Well, the beginning of the book, I opened it with a quote from Dr. King and he said there will always be escapists, you know, freeloaders and so on. Basically pointing out there are always going to be people who will fight against their own Frederick Douglass. There was a guy named Isaiah Montgomery in 1890, black man in Mississippi who voted against black people being able to vote. Basically he said in this really horrific speech that Negroes are too dumb to vote. And Frederick Douglass reacted by others will be dazzled by fame and imitate his bad example prophetic Booker T. Washington when he gives his famous Atlanta compromise speech. Basically saying that black people wanted freedom too soon and we should maintain being second class citizens. And they, they asked for too much too soon. Just work, you know, work in farm work, you know, accept where you are. Ida b. Wells and W.E.B. du Bois and so many folks blast Booker T. Washington for the speech. But he was praised by the media at the time. If there would have been Fox News back then. He would have had a primetime show in about an hour. Right. He was praised. He, he was given massive donations from, from, from white people praising him for this real speech. Being an independent thinker, it's one of the favorite lines as well. So for me, and I could go on and on with these examples and where we are today, I think that it is a remix of what some of those early grifters did, that when you are the person that allegedly sees beyond your lens, when you are the independent thinker, when you get out of this is quoted in the book. They said, Winston, Winston Sears, who is the lieutenant governor of Virginia, black woman, that she got out of plantation ideology. Right. You will be rewarded and folks want the reward. So I don't think anybody's a victim here. I don't believe they're being exploited. I think that they know exactly what they're doing. Some folks, that Herschel Walker was a victim. No, he knows what he's doing. It's, it's a hustle. And you're going to hustle and do the con for as long as you can. So I think it's strategic. Some are smarter than others. Some are a lot smarter than others. Condoleezza Rice, I think, is very complicated. She's brilliant. She is, she is, has the, the accolades. But she's somebody who advocated against affirmative action for tenure at Stanford University. When she literally admits that she has been elevated in her career because of affirmative action, I mean, my God, my goodness, you know, she is somebody who, who spoke out against Confederate monuments being tore down. She goes, I don't think we should whitewash history. When Confederate monuments were literally created in the early 1900s to whitewash history, that's why they were created. They weren't created. That's why they were, they were erected. So I think it's very strategic and I think that oftentimes it lacks nuance or accountability. There's barely any, there's barely a critique of their party. And right now there is a robust career and a robust check for the delusional black Trump supporter of black Republican. So I, I think it's strategy. And if you don't obey that line, you will be kicked out of the party. So there's social media. Yes, but it's, it's the gay person who's against same sex marriage. It's the undocumented immigrant who came here undocumented. Now they're here legally. But they're against, they're against, quote, unquote, folks being here. Undocumented. There is a being contrarian against your own. There is a. There is a reward for that because we're all in this structure of other ism, and we're on this structure of wars against ideology. And in wars against ideology, nobody wins. So I think it's very strategic, and I don't think it's an advent of just where we are right now. It's been a long time in the making. And when it comes to the gop, this is the party where corruption attracts corruption. This is the party, like I said before, the circus attracts the circus. And if you aren't going to perform like you're in the circus, there's no space for them. And I also mentioned the book that I don't believe the GOP is redeemable. I don't believe at this point they have any redemption. I think that Trump was the. The. Although rich, Ronald Reagan was horrific and all these things, but he was the. He was the one, the one. The last moment, I think, where they could have turned away from their vile, disgusting racism and rhetoric and so on, but I don't think there's any redemption for them. Right now we have a whole January 6th insurrection that they're saying people who were a part of that were political hostages. This is exactly what they did, Derek, after the Civil War. They downplayed the violence of the war and said the Confederates were patriots. I mean, some of this is just identical to the history of white supremacy in this country. So if you were in a party that is irredeemable, I don't know what you could offer, especially when your rhetoric is so anti black. [00:38:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I remember sort of switching gears in 20 during the 2016 election. I worked for Karen Bass, who's now the mayor of L. A, but at the time, she was a member of Congress, and I was sitting next to her at the Jacob Jarvis center in New York City. And this was during. This was literally election night. And so, you know, a lot of folks were expecting a Hillary win. So we were in the crowd and, you know, throughout the night, we started to see that Trump was winning states that he shouldn't have been winning. And, you know, once we determined that the race was lost for the Democrats, Karen Bass turned to me and said, this is. This is the new Jim Crow. We've entered. We've entered the new Jim Crow era. And I'll never forget those words. I'll be on. I thought she was being dramatic at the time. You know, I thought she know. But everybody was afraid and crying and Scared. But we've seen. You could write a whole book on that. But we've seen sort of the. This. This. The evolution of this. And, you know, I know for me, you know, I don't know, we're probably around the same age, man, but, like, growing up, you've. You know, my. My family was very politically involved and just being a black person in America, you know, we. We talked about civil rights, slavery, Jim Crow and all of that, and never in my life that I believe that we were going to go this far back again. So with that being said, like, what do you see with. In the current track, we are now looking at the gop, you know, saying they're irredeemable. Can it get worse than what it already is? [00:40:30] Speaker A: Oh, yes. Oh, brother. It can get worse. Oh, my gosh. I mean, look at Germany before. And before the Nazi party got in power, Germany was a thriving, thriving country. They were technology advanced. I mean, absolutely. And, you know, one of the big mistakes of that era of 1930s Germany, the communist Party said that the Nazi Party and I think it was the democratic socialists that they were. They were the same thing. There's no difference. The lesser of the two evils. There's no difference between the Nazis and the other party. The Communist Party kept saying this. Noam Chomsky broke this down. We see how that turned out. There was a big difference. There was an extreme difference. And that. That. That. That's one of the stunts, too, to make you believe. Oh, they're. They're very similar. Yes. It can get worse. [00:41:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:23] Speaker A: And that's what scares me. I know my history. I know the history of this country right now. So have you heard of Edward Bloom? You heard of this guy Edward Bloom? [00:41:32] Speaker B: No. [00:41:32] Speaker A: He is targeting black women, targeting organizations that are helping black women. This is Keisha Knight Pulliam, former Cosby kid. She's a part of an organization that assists black women. He's targeting it, saying that it's too race specific. Edward Bloom was also behind gutting affirmative action. Their next step, hear me, Derek, is to overturn the 1964 Civil Rights Act. For folks who don't know what that is, that banned discrimination in public accommodations. And it basically was a legal end to Jim Crow. They're already bringing test cases to the lower courts arguing reverse discrimination. We don't need this anymore. That's how they gutted affirmative action. They were bringing test cases. Test cases, Test cases. And arguing this discriminates against everybody but black people. So, yeah, it could get a lot worse. And listen, we have Project 2025, where Republicans, whether it's Trump or not, because Trumpism is still here. The whether or not he's president, to give more power to the executive branch, meaning that there's barely any checks and balances. They're looking for a king, not a legislature, not legislators looking for a king. They don't want checks and balances. So it could get worse. And what I don't want. Derek, you know, in 1868, 1868, we had 80% of black people registered to vote. Not black women, just black men. 80%. Derek, you know what happened with that election? We were able to take over, not take over. We were able to elect black folks all throughout the south. And this was massive voter suppression. We're talking about black folks being. Being black men being killed at the voting booth. We were able to elect Grant. We were able to put black folks in all types of roles throughout the South. I don't want us to get back to an era of 1868 to see the urgency of now. You know, if we just had 70% voter turnout, 75% voter turnout, we could have significant power. We could vote out the old guard Democrats and we can have people in government who have our best interests at heart. We can pass a reparations bill. Many of the things that we want has to go through Congress. You can't rule by executive order. So my fear is that people don't get it, people downplay it, and then we get to a space where you're forced to get it. The last time we had high youth youth engagement at the voting booth was during Vietnam. Why? Because young folks are being drafted to fight in Vietnam. And young folks got so involved, I think it was by 1971 or 73, they managed to lower the voting age from 21 to 18 because they wanted to vote. Like this book. I am ringing the alarm that the GOP right now is irredeemable. The Democratic Party needs to be fixed. But the only way that we can do that. I know it sounds trite. I know folks are tired of hearing it. Is if we vote collectively. You think about Gary Chambers in Louisiana who ran for Senate. He should have won. [00:44:58] Speaker B: He should. [00:44:59] Speaker A: Val Demings in Florida should have won. Like we even have. We didn't have these candidates when you and I were younger, Derek. There was no Gary Chambers S. There was no Chris Jones in Arkansas. We have some good candidates now, and they're not winning. There's voter suppression, but there's also voter turnout. [00:45:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:15] Speaker A: And yeah, sorry, brother, but yeah, it can get worse. It can get worse. [00:45:19] Speaker B: I mean, I think about 2024, and I think that one of the things that were, you know, if anything, Trump's presidency brought to the forefront a lot of the ways in which government works. Right. And so the average person who may not been. Who may have not been politically, you know, involved knew more about the government than ever before because he was essentially, he was, you know, he was exploiting, you know, government. And so, you know, at every turn, so people got a better idea of how, you know, presidential powers worked and all of that. So when I think about 2024 and what you just said and folks being going to the ballot like Vietnam, I think about the geopolitical issues that exist today, and I think about the fear that I don't think we talk enough about the overarching, just fear that permeates society now because of these wars and rumors of war, so to speak. So. But I do think that I haven't looked at the polls, but there clearly is this a movement among younger people, younger liberals who are supporting Palestine. [00:46:34] Speaker A: Right. [00:46:35] Speaker B: And I think inevitably, these folks are going to go to the ballot and vote against the current administration who they feel like is on the wrong side of history. So what are your predictions for. For 2024, if you were to. If you were to have one. [00:46:53] Speaker A: All right, so I know folks don't want to hear this, so this may not be a popular opinion. You talked about younger voters. They ain't voting. They ain't showing up, brother. I mean, youth voter turnout is, like, in the 30s, the midterms. They voted. And I'm not saying we don't invest in younger voters. I'm not saying we don't try to get younger voters. I'm not saying that at all. I mean, when you and I were younger, what was a rock the vote? Yeah. Early 2000s. Vote or die. I mean, we've been begging young folks to vote for years. And I was a young dumb person who didn't vote. I was that person because I. I didn't understand how civics worked. I didn't know how government worked. And I believe that was intentional for me not to know how these things work. So I felt disinvested. So if you're saying you aren't going to vote because of the horrors that are happening right now, basically Biden is doing what every other president has done. Right. So if that was your deal breaker, I don't know if you were going to vote before that. So I would say that you. We incentivize the base who was going to vote. I would say we work with people who understand what's at stake and we can try to educate. But what's, what's the phrase? You can only bring a horse to water, you can't make them drink. I mean, it couldn't be clearer, Derek. It couldn't be clearer. The stark differences. I mean, not only do you have Trumpism, you got Margie Taylor Greene, you got Lauren Boebert. I mean, you got Lindsey Graham, you got Mitch McConnell, who, what Mitch McConnell did to the Supreme Court is egregious. Like I say, we do the outreach, we try. I can't predict what's going to happen. I mean, you never really know, but it couldn't be clearer. It just couldn't be clearer. And if that man gets back in office, I think it'll be the end of elections. I think he'll want to be in there permanently and pass that office to his son, his daughter. I mean, all the signs are there. And when every democracy has fallen apart, all the signs have been there. So I hope we get it. I hope folks understand it. I don't know if the youth vote is going to swing the election. I don't know. This is about all of us collectively. So I hope we get it. [00:49:36] Speaker B: Yes. I mean, back in 2016, I worked in a congressional office for a Democrat and I was very unpopular because I, I, my, the member I was working for was a surrogate for Hillary. So I was on the right side, but I was reading the tea leaves and I predicted that Trump was going to win for many, many reasons. Use of social media, the way he was galvanizing an anti, sort of Democratic base, the way that, the way the larger global, anti globalist stance of the world was going and that he was sort of playing into that and he won. I believe that when I say young people, I guess I'm counting myself as young under 40. Right. [00:50:21] Speaker A: So people who are, I'm so thinking under 30, I was thinking, yeah, I should have. [00:50:25] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think because we're looking at the lion's share of people who are supporting Palestine. They're, you know, between 30 and 40. I mean, I think the majority of folks between 30 and 40 are supporting Palestine and against what Israel's doing. I believe, man, that we, in the past, people were galvanized to vote because, mostly because of domestic, I'll say in the recent past because of domestic issues. Right. And now I think you have this, this voting block of people who are relatively young between 20. I'll say between 20 and 40 who are more engaged because of what's happening in Palestine. And so far all they've been able to do is march maybe right there, I don't know their member of Congress or whatever, and post on social media. I think that this 2024 election is for them the call to action, for them to actually make to, you know, to sort of get the US out of this, this conflict. And I think, you know, when you hear Trump's message, I mean, I don't know if he, I don't know if he's explicitly said he would pull the US out and not support Israel. [00:51:33] Speaker A: Oh, no, he did not say that at all. Worse. [00:51:38] Speaker B: Right. But I don't, but I think that folks unfortunately don't know that. I think that they believe that a vote against Biden is a vote for the support of these subjugated peoples. And that's my fear, is that people are going to show up to the polls because of a visceral reaction to the current administration's policies around Israel. And I fear that that's going to result that may. Well, I don't say, I'm not going to say I fear I'm going to stay neutral in this, but I think that that's going to result in more people going to the polls voting for Republicans in general. [00:52:14] Speaker A: I couldn't, I don't know if they look at the GOP policy, it's, yeah, it's not pro Palestine at all. [00:52:20] Speaker B: It's not. But what it is, it's, it's anti interventionalist. Right. That's what it is. And I think that people can muddy, can mix up the messages and believe that. You know, I think that people, I think that it's very easy for people to mix the messages up. They sort of the anti interventionalists and saying we need to stay out of these, these sorts of wars with believing that. [00:52:39] Speaker A: But wait, Derek, the GOP is, they want to fund Israel. I mean, all the money that's going to Israel, it has to go through Congress. And Speaker Mike Johnson, he's all about it. Give as much money to Israel as possible. It appears that they, I mean, listen, someone told me this, I don't know how true this is. Great guy comes to my show named Victor Lagrun. He said even if for some reason the Biden Harris administration pulled out of Israel completely, which they really can't do, you just, there isn't an option to do that. This is not how civics works. But even if they did one thing he did say I don't know how true this is. He said it'll be political suicide. Yeah, he said, you know, you think, I mean, it would just, it will be the biggest controversy. It will be political suicide. So, you know, listen, I don't know, I could be wrong, but I don't know if this will be the tipping point in November. I just don't know. These things move quickly. I can recall when folks said the way Biden handled Afghanistan, the pullout that would destroy him for the midterms. It did it. I don't know. I don't know where we're going to be in November. I hope folks get the urgency of now. And what I will say is that, you know, I wasn't a Biden supporter. I was a Julian Castro supporter. See how far he got, you know what I'm saying? Like, I, I wasn't, you know, I was, I was a Julio Castro guy. The folks that I always root for never make it. You know, that's the other thing. If you want these younger people in office, you got to support them. Yeah, 2020, we had Julian Castro, we had Cory Booker, we had Pete Buttigieg, we had Kamala Harris, we had, we had younger people running. But the people decided either to not show up at all. And the ones who did show up supported Biden. I'm not mad at folks who showed up getting what they wanted collectively. You know, I say let's focus on maintaining the executive branch. If you're not a big fan of Biden, take Biden's name out of it. Do you want to maintain the executive branch? Of course you want to maintain Congress. A lot of these things are local. You know, this may be called maybe asking a lot, but if you are upset and you're posting on TikTok, I hope you're calling your senators. Yeah, I hope you're calling your state. I hope you're, you're calling your folks, represent you in the House of Representatives. You know, I, I hope you're doing that. But let's focus on maintaining the executive branch. That, that executive branch is crucial. You know, it's been a long time since we had a, a filibuster proof majority in the Senate. [00:55:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:14] Speaker A: You know, in politics you don't get everything you want. Sadly, there's compromising, sadly, you have to change bills, they're ratified. They go back and forth just kind of how this thing, this thing works. So I don't have a prediction, but I have an intention. And the intention is that know the good that's happening. I think that the fair, the fair area you can critique Biden is foreign policy. I'm all about it. Right. Fair enough. Let's celebrate our wins, let's criticize the losses. Nobody's above critique. Let's hold them accountable and let's have a long term plan. You know, when, when the GOP didn't get to overturn Roe v. Wade in the 80s, they said, oh, we're going to keep going. I'm going to pass this ideology on to my, my kids, to my grandkids, to my. When they didn't get overturned in the 90s, they kept going. 2000s kept going. 2000s, they kept going. Like, we have to think of the long game. [00:56:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:16] Speaker A: If the long game is eventually to get us out of being involved with Israel, then that's a long game. A very much long game. Because it's been 1948, you know what I'm saying? And you got to vote in people. I guess you want to vote in folks who feel more like Ilhan Omar. Right. You know, but it still is. If you don't do politics, politics will do you. So, man, I don't have a prediction, but I do know that this country is not perfect. There is still massive wealth inequality, there is still poverty. But I feel like we're better off than we were this time four years ago. Oh, my gosh. January 2020, Covid was about to hit. And although Trump didn't create Covid, the chaos around Covid made things worse. [00:57:08] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:57:09] Speaker A: I feel like we're better off and that to me. And you know, you were saying earlier about you're upset that Corinne Jean Pierre says we're not in a recession. And I hear you, but I think what I struggle with is that all we allegedly have are these numbers. And the numbers say we're not in a recession. Now, when the numbers say that, for Republicans, they celebrate it. Right. The numbers say we have historic low black unemployment. Not saying all black folks are employed, but these are what the numbers and the data say. So I think you have to say, here's what the numbers are, but here's the work we have to do to get better. [00:57:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:51] Speaker A: But I, I feel like when the numbers are good for Democrats, it's like, I'm not saying you're doing them this, like, they're not really good, though. They're not really good. [00:58:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:01] Speaker A: But folks will say, will still say that the economy was booming under Trump. I'm like, and then, and then, you know, and then Democrats said, well, it did well for you for a couple years only because of Obama. But nonetheless, nonetheless, that's what the numbers were. Yeah. And now when the numbers are good for us, gas prices are down, unemployment is down, student loan forgiveness, $132 billion. Yeah, but not really. So I struggle sometimes, Derek. I struggle. Like if we were in a recession, if the numbers said that, baby, that would be 24 hour news. And things have. There was a prediction we would have an actual recession according to the numbers. But is poverty still there? Absolutely. We have a $7.25 minimum wage. Netflix and Amazon barely pay taxes. Of course. Of course that we have a housing crisis. Of course. You have Governor Greg Abbott of Texas shipping people like cargo to cities, to cities that have black mayors. We're using people. Absolutely. We have. Yeah. Go ahead, brother. But I'm just saying, it just. [00:59:12] Speaker B: You mentioned the long game, right? The Democrats long game. What do you think? Guess It's a two part question, man. What do you think the GOP's long game is? And do you believe that Trump's long game is aligned with the GOP's long game? So what is the long game? [00:59:32] Speaker A: Listen, while Trump is terrible, you know, Trump is the hate that Republicans created. [00:59:41] Speaker B: Yes. [00:59:42] Speaker A: Ronald Reagan was horrific. We're still suffering from Ronald Reagan's policies. His tax bill, his immigration plan, homelessness skyrocketed under Reagan. The, the, the cuts to hud. [00:59:59] Speaker B: All of that. [00:59:59] Speaker A: Say it again. [01:00:00] Speaker B: I was going to say the prison industrial complex, drug. [01:00:03] Speaker A: Oh my goodness. You know, the reason why college is so expensive. It was the changes that Reagan made where you could skyrocket the, skyrocket the cost of college, college back for like maybe our, our parents, our grandparents. It wasn't that expensive. Right. So absolutely Trump aligns with who the GOP is now. Trump doesn't know the Constitution. Trump is not. Trump didn't get, you know, he doesn't. That's not. But he has the minions behind him. [01:00:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:36] Speaker A: That will do the work. That's why it's important to call him out. But it's important to call out anybody who defends him, who makes excuses for him, for him and who doesn't like Senator Edward Brooke did. He called on Richard Nixon to resign. A black Republican. He said you must. He was the first one to say you must step down. So I think Trump is aligned. Absolutely. Bush's policies. [01:01:06] Speaker B: What's his long game, though? [01:01:09] Speaker A: The long game for them. [01:01:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:11] Speaker A: The long game for them is to overturn that 1964 Civil Rights act to make America great again. A 1950s, 1940s America. It is to ensure they. Some folks believe they're losing their power. It is to ensure their diaphanous power. It is Christian nationalism. It is to make sure that people like you and I don't have the voices that we have. I mean, they're telling us in plain sight their war on DEI few years ago was critical. Race theory, quote, unquote, wokeism. [01:01:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:52] Speaker A: I think the long game is white nationalism. And let me be clear, that not only impacts black folks, it impacts white folks too, because poor white folks losing that as well. It is to end public education, all charter schools. It is to end Social Security. I know they try and be vague about it, but that's what it appears they want to do. It's if you are poor, you deserve to be there. You're lazy, you're shiftless, get a job. It's pull yourself up by your bootstraps, and if you don't, you should suffer. And if there was a different long game, oh, it's also being having the government in your doctor's office. Right. So if there was a different long game, show me, what's their policy for wealth inequality? What's their policy for the outlandish cost of prescription drugs? Let's not forget the Biden Harris administration. Capping insulin at $35. That's freaking huge. Nobody talks about that. And listen, what did Kevin McCarthy say recently? Kevin McCarthy said when you. Kevin McCarthy, who I do not like. He said, when you look at the Republican Party, it looks like a country club. When you look at the Democratic Party, it looks like America. Kevin McCarthy said it. [01:03:09] Speaker B: Wow. [01:03:10] Speaker A: So. And of course, once he's out of office. Whatever. Well, once he says he's resigning, so. Man, I think it's clear what they want. For some reason, they're threatened by certain people. And what's really sad about this, Derek, is that I always say this, that we as black folks, we're not as wedded to the Democratic Party as people think, because the largest voting block is the non voter. If the Republican Party would have, many decades ago, really began to craft policies that weren't built in the Southern Strategy or the Willie Horton ad, which is a famously racist ad that helped Bush win his. His election in 1988. If they would actually made policies that help black folks, we would have a much different political conversation. But Dr. King warned us. He said, I'm afraid of the GOP becoming the white man's party. They don't want to craft policies for people because they feel like it'll hurt their Base. Which is unfortunate. [01:04:09] Speaker B: Yeah. So what is it? What do you want people to take away from this book? [01:04:16] Speaker A: I want people. So I said it before. I'll say it again. Ida B. Wells said, the way to right past wrongs is to shine the light of truth upon them. This book. Consider this book as shining my light of truth. That's the way to right past wrongs. There have been so many past wrongs in this country, especially to black people. And I believe showing the grift among people who look like us, who are upholding white supremacy is crucial. Showing the downward spiral of racial politics in the GOP is crucial. And I hope that it'll. It'll. It'll incentivize and mobilize people to care, because they're not over. They. It's. It's not over. And I. I also think that whoever the GOP nominee is, they're going to choose a black Republican as their VP pick because they want someone to combat Vice President Kamala Harris. Their. Their tokenism is always in reaction to. They only chose Clarence Thomas because of Thurgood Marshall. They only selected Michael Steele because of Obama. And I love Mike. I like Michael Steele a lot in the book, I talked to him, but he should have been the RNC chair before Obama became president if they really cared. They only selected Herschel Walker because of Senator Raphael Warnock. So I hope people understand the grift that we have to call out extremism before it takes over. And there are people who are participating in this extremism, and they are specifically targeting black communities. So I hope folks can walk away with that, from it. Be educated, learn things. And when you're in that barbershop where you're in that beauty salon, you could say, wait a minute. I learned this from the book. I learned that Abraham Lincoln was not the great emancipator. I learned the GOP turned on black folks way before the Southern Strategy. Hey. I learned that a lot of these folks who are black Republicans, they are fighting against the very policies that help them. I learned the grift is profitable and it is dangerous, and we got to call it out. [01:06:32] Speaker B: Thank you, man. So the book is the Grift, the Downward Spiral of Black Republicans from the Party of Lincoln to the Cult of Trump. And it comes out on January 30th of this year. Thanks for having us, man. Really happy to have you. [01:06:45] Speaker A: Thank you, Derek. And, Derek, I want to say quickly, I met you many years ago at the Congressional Black Caucus. I want to thank you for your work. The Kind of work that you do as well behind the scenes is so important. It's so crucial. Like, we all have our lane. We all have what we can contribute. And you've done some really, really incredible work. And I know that you care, and I appreciate. I appreciate being, you know, being critical. And the analysis. Nobody is above critique, even Democrats, even black Democrats, they should be critiqued and held accountable. But the work that you do, folks don't see your work sometimes. They don't know how it works. They don't know how these interviews are booked. They don't know how people like you will pitch black media outlets, black radio, black television shows to say, hey, you must come here. Like, you are a strategist who has done the work. And you are so important. And I know you don't do as much anymore, but the work that you do is so important to making sure that we maintain our democracy and we move forward. That we move forward. I don't want to go to 1990s Democrats. I don't want to go to 1980s Democrats. I want to move forward, man. So I really, really appreciate your work and the work that you've done that folks may not know. [01:07:52] Speaker B: Thank you, man. And thank you. You've. Throughout my career, bro, you've always been there, man. I mean, you're the one person I can call, and I know your answer. It might not always be a yes, but you're always there. So I really appreciate it, man. And I appreciate the work you've been doing. And I think that this book is critically important for the times that we're in. And I do hope that people buy it. So we're going to keep promoting it and hope to have you again, man. [01:08:15] Speaker A: Thank you. Have a good day, man. Be safe. [01:08:17] Speaker B: Thank you.